CHILDREN

After creating heaven and earth, God created Adam and Eve. And the first thing he said was "DON'T!" 
"Don't what?" Adam replied.  
"Don't eat the forbidden fruit."  God said.  
"Forbidden fruit?  We have forbidden fruit? Hey Eve, we have forbidden fruit!"  
"No way!"
"Yes way!"  
"Do NOT eat the fruit!" said God
"Why?"
"Because I am your Father and I said so!"  God replied, wondering why He hadn't stopped creation after making the elephants.  A few minutes later, God saw His children having an apple break and He was angry!  "Didn't I tell you not to eat the fruit?"  God asked.
"Uh huh," Adam replied.
"Then why did you?" said the Father.
"I don't know," said Eve.
"She started it!" Adam said
"I did not!"
Having had it with the two of them, God's punishment was that Adam and Eve should have children of their own. Thus the pattern was set and it has never changed.

BUT THERE IS REASSURANCE IN THE STORY!  If you have persistently and lovingly tried to give children wisdom and they haven't taken it, don't be hard on yourself.  If God had trouble raising children, what makes you think it would be a piece of cake for you?  

THINGS TO THINK ABOUT!

1. You spend the first two years of their life teaching them to walk and talk.  Then you spend the next sixteen telling them to sit down and shut up.
2. Grandchildren are God's reward for not killing your own children.
3. Mothers of teens now know why some animals eat their young.
4. Children seldom misquote you.  In fact, they usually repeat word for word what you shouldn't have said.
5. The main purpose of holding children's parties is to remind yourself that there are children more awful than your own.
6. We childproofed our homes, but they are still getting in.

Although you may not realize, you are already taking one of the biggest risks of your life (besides escaping VN).  Having a family is a risk.  You were willing to risk your youth to commit to someone for life.  You are risking raising kids who may or may not live up to your expectation.  I admire people who have the courage to take such a big risk, especially women; their risks are greater than men's when it comes to having families and kids.

Elise

Do you all agree with Elise?  Having kid is a big risk?  Yes, paying child support is a very high risk too?  Well, here is what I know.  They step on your feet when they are young and they will step on your heart when they are older, an eternal worry of their well being that will last a life time.  All I have to do is to witness my mom.  She still worries for an almost 50 years old son.  
Anything we do to have fun is short term fun. Having family and kids are long term fun. At least that is what it is designed to do.  
Joe, what do you think? Good answer or bad answer?  

Bun

Bun and Joe,

You guys are great!!  I totally agreed with both of you and learned few valuable points on how fathers think toward their kids.

Elise, I don't think it is fun for parents to worry about their kids.  But it is part of being a parent.  The biggest joy comes with the biggest worry and the biggest responsibility.  Learning to deal with those emotions is really a big part of being a parent.  I constantly worry about my daughter.  When she was young, I worried that she got sick, hungry, cold and worried that I didn't raise her well and so forth.  When she goes to school, I worry that she doesn't get along with her friends, doesn't listen to her teachers, get kidnapped, doesn't wear enough clothes or wear too many clothes, doesn't study or get enough outside activities…  The constant worry is there but when she comes home from school each day, I'm so happy to see her safe and healthy.  And then I start to nag about her doing her home work, her chores, her ... and then I get headache just seeing her sitting around doing nothing (I worry that she wastes her time and her youth away).  Yes, the worrying and the happiness are hand in hand but it is worth every moment.  We share our lives together and we are a family.  It is always a risk of marrying to a wrong person but dating the wrong person has the same risk too.  At least with husband, we can get divorced and share half of our assets and get child support and alimony if he is looking for “Nang Saigon” but with boy friend, we may end up with nothing.  He-he-he-....

    Having a family is a blessing, is having someone to share a life with, to build a future together, to share many moments together.  There have been up and down in a family and there have been many struggling moments to find a middle ground, to get our differences to sort out, and to be comfortable with each other.  There are many compromises, happy times, angry time, sad times, and disappointed times.  We learn and we adjust and we appreciate what we share together and what we have together.   Yes, compromise, grateful for what we have, be honest to each other, think only good things about him especially after the disagreements (yes, it is hard to think of his good points when you are angry but thinking of all his good points, your good moments together, then it is easier to let go of all the bad feelings).  
    Of course, there are moments that I wish I was single but those are few and rare.  The only complain that I have the most of having a family is that my life is too busy.  I think it is a matter of choice on how you choose to live your life.  Being positive, being content, and being happy within yourself, your life will be meaningful on whatever path you are choosing.  When you are happy, people around you feel better too.

Bonnie

Yes, this is a good discussion.  No hard feelings please. 

Me is me; my children are different persons.  I can't make them do what I want them to do, because I never listen to my parents either. 

I am not perfect.  I don't want my imperfect genes pass on to the next generations.  Because I don't want my children blame me for that.

The human species is already over populated.  We are running out of land, food, and clean air.  Our children and grandchildren will have a tougher time to survive.  I can't even imagine what their mortgage payments would be. 

I will just live my own life to its fullest and be done with it.  No children. 

Elise

You blew me away (yes, again) with your emails about family and kids.  I don't necessary agree with everything you said, but who am I to say that you are wrong?  I sincerely wish you a life full of happiness.

Just one more thing, about what your mom said that "her kids ruined her life and that she would rather born a dozen eggs, at least she got to eat them", don't read too much into that.  Most Chinese parents have made that kind of comment one form or another when they are upset, and they don't mean it.

Joe 

I don’t know what I get when I have them but this is a risk well worth taking. To tell you the truth, my kids are not growing exactly the way I want them to. They make me mad all the time but after so many years of learning I just keep on reasoning with them and hope they learn it the easy way instead of the hard way when they exit my house.

One article said having kid is not a good economic choice because they do a lot of damage to your wallet until they finish college but like Joe said, It’s unconditional love, just come home and spend a Christmas with us.J  It’s all about choice but the conventional way is to have family with kids.

I still don’t understand what you said.  I can't bear to see my child to go through what most people go through.  With your education and position, your child can’t be more proud then a mom likes you, right?  And he or she will only go through the best under your supervision. I hope to offer my kid more but that’s all I can do for them for now.
This is good discussion,

Bun

I am married, have a good wife and kids of my own; so I might be bias.

Raising kids is not easy at all.  They "cost" so much, and they get on our nerve.  But still we make sacrifices, we forgive them, and we love them more than we love ourselves.  It's a "risky" business if we think in terms of ROI (return-on-investment) because chances are we will get nothing back.  But then, who would want anything back anyway?

Unconditional love is a very beautiful thing to do, and that's what we offer to our kids, until we can bear no more.  We feel good doing it.  Perhaps, like all living things, after millions of years in existence, that's what a human is programmed to do. 

Joe

After AAK (Aiban AK-50) had enjoyed the big goat meal, we all took a big
nap; we take it easy to relax and enjoy life.  Ha-ha... Now we get
back to the real world.  Sharing with you one of AAK’s points of view about “Having a family is a risk”.

It was too late to realize this big risk.  I think having a family and children is not a big risk but marrying the wrong person is.  The wrong marriage can be broken by divorce, even though I do not believe in divorce.  Unfortunately, if the marriage has children involved, the children will stick with you for life, because we have made a choice to have them, and they have no choice to choose whose their parents will be. Therefore, to have children in a relationship is not considered to be a risk; it should be considered as a responsible difficult tasks that the couple has to face and accomplish.

Here, I see two different perspectives in the discussion of this subject.  One is the very typically Eastern culture perspective.  The other is a Westernized perspective, although both were being born and raised in the same Eastern culture heritage. Traditionally, women in the Eastern cultures do not have any chance to make their own choices; they seldom have a voice in the family.  Acceptance would be a strong word in their mind when it comes to decisions making.  It does not mean Eastern women are not smart or do not have the abilities to do or handle a task as good as men, it is because the culture norms.  Women in Eastern society stick in the unfairness situation.  If they have the courage to fight back, they did know what was the outcome should be; they have no support from their family, nor friends or society, they will be on their own battle.

Unlike in many Western societies where women are more liberal and can get a lot of supports from family, friends and society, they can make their own choices; they have much more chances and opportunities than Eastern women. The Westernized concept about ‘Having a family is a risk’ can be easily accepted.  Therefore, there is no right or wrong answers to this discussion; it is only a matter of how an individual has had their own life experiences to deal with the situation.  It depends on the individual whether or not having family or having children is considered risk or challenged.

I am grateful that I am able to bear children.  Experiencing my gender roles as a
woman, who has willingly gone through three full terms 9 months pregnancy, all had natural delivery without taking any anesthetics. Knock on wood, all my children are healthy.   My ideal family size was 6 people, to have a couple with two girls and two boys like my parents had. 

You do not need to have a degree to raise kids, it comes naturally for women, and what kids need from you is the loving care, a remark from my mom about raising children.  She did well in her part to raise four children and never complained or put too many expectations on her children.  She thought that it was her job to carry the same task of having and raising children from generation to generation.  Yet raising children is not an easy task.  It takes a lot of effort and sacrifices physically, mentally and financially.  Indeed, the care that we give to our children is an on going process of life time work, and unconditional love.

Note that even though we know those risks, we acknowledge its outcome, it hurts and it is very painful when extract the baby from the birth canal, but you know what?   It is worth to experience!  The pain does not last long, as soon as, the minute that the nurse put the baby in my arms, all those pains, the un-pleasant feelings have gone in exchange for the joy and happiness.  It is really a God’s gift! 

Nevertheless, having children leads me to become less concerned about myself, but more concerned with the well being of others, and about the future of my children.  Having children have challenged me to learn how to cook, how to control my tempers, and how to be patience with others.  I am so joyful when my children make a comment about me:  “Mom, you are a very good cook.  You can cook meals better than the restaurant.”  I feel rewarding from the care of them.

Obviously, the honesty and fully disclosure of personal opinions from the discussions have proof that Eastern Women in the 21st century are different, we are getting more open mind and having the courage to speak up, stand for our right.  The condition has substantially improved in our generation. 

I respect for individuals opinions and decision to make and proud of all spending times, giving out a hand over this subject.  I really enjoy it and hopefully more and more friends will give out more hands.  The fun never ends in Ai-ban, isn’t it?  Let’s prepare for the next talk show.

Peimei

Can you stay your opinion clearly?  Having a family is a risk or not, to you? First you stated:  "It was too late to realize this risk", so you did agree on that it was a risk but was too late to do anything about it.

Later you stated: "I think having a family, having children is not a big risk, but marrying the wrong person is", did you mean that it is a risk, however, not a big one? 

Then you said:  "...to have children in a relationship is not considered to be a risk..."  Now you disagreed on 'having family is a risk'.

And then you state:  "It depends on the individual whether or not having family or children is considered risk..."  Now you were neutral. 

And then you stated:  "Note that even though we know those risks, we acknowledge its out come...."  So now you agreed on that there are many risks involved in having children.

Please be direct and to the point.

Elise

The more I learn about life, the more I come to realize that I’m so lucky to have my children. (They feel the same way toward me).

The other day, Tristan asked, sounded worry:  “Daddy, what’s going to happen to you after you send us to college?”  Then Maeve added:  “Are you sure you’ll survive without us, Daddy?”

Although I was caught unprepared by the questions I wasn’t ready for the answers, but at that moment, I was so grateful for God giving me the opportunity to be their father.

Children are the gifts of love from God. The older I grow, the deeper I know of the fact that I’ve built a love-relationship with two great individuals that’s guarantee to last for life.

James

It's time to draw a conclusion on the hot topic we discussed in the last 10 days---having family is a risk (or not). 

The keyword is 'risk'.  Don't care it's big or small, many or little, god gift or not god gift (this will be another discussion.), difficult or easy to raise a family, conditional or unconditional love, long term or short term happiness, and etc.  Do not side track.

It is just common sense.  Anyone uses common sense already know the answer.  As the matter of fact, 'everything' we do involve certain risk, even as simple task as sitting in front of the computer writing email to you right now, because I am using company's time to write personal emails, I am taking a risk not to be discovered.  Therefore, how could that having a family--something so dramatic that it can change your life forever--not a risk?

Elise

Hi Elise,

Yes, risks are everywhere and everything. You can't live in a risk free world and therefore, you are taking a risk just by living it. But risks or not, we are enjoying or experience our lives in full extent. There are so many risks that we are willing to take and sometimes we are taking some risks that we don't even know we are taking them. Having a family is one of the risks that we were willing to take or we took it without knowing it was a risk. :-)  When we were young and foolish, we fell in/out of love easily and often. And maybe we wanted to get married to settle down and didn't think far and long of the risks in sharing a life with someone.  Then, we wanted to be a parent and the joy of being a parent made us forgetting the risks.  Overall, I believe if people want something badly, people are willing to take the risks.  Life is full of risks, so, live happily and take risks (you can only rely on your own judgments in making the decisions and if you don't believe your own judgments, what else should you believe?).  Who care if having a
family was the biggest risk that we took. Who care if our kids are not what we expected. We enjoy the process or the experience of starting a family or raising a kid. The end results are unpredictable but that is life, unpredictable!

Bonnie

Elise,

I believe Bonnie is giving you a very satisfying answer. I have this to add on.  As soon as I step out of the house each day, I am taking a risk just to drive.
I just started a new business and emptied my saving.  I am taking a big risk, especially at this age, why, because I am responsible for the family and kids.  If I don't have kids, what am I fighting for?  For the enjoyment of myself and to buy a big fancy house just for me and my sweet heart?  I believe this is a little selfish and empty.
So Elise, have kid.

Bun

Bonnie gave me a marvelous answer.  And so did you!  But wait, it is only your opinion that having no kid is a bigger risk.  I would rather have no child than a sick child.  What kind of future or life the sick child has?  I could not bear to see it suffer or to see myself or my relatives or my friends to suffer.  
Like I said before, I am not perfect and I don’t want to pass on my imperfect genes to the next generation.  Opposite from being selfish, I am greater than you can ever imagine. 

Elise

Hi, all

Just remember one who risks nothing risks everything.  The moment one is born, one is having all kinds of risk already.

CJ

Hi Elise,

Thank you for the compliments.  Thank you for making me thinks of my actions of having a family and having a kid.  To be fair, I didn't think I thought hard enough at those decision times. :-)  My parents may think that they gave me 80% of good genes and 20% of bad genes.  I think they gave me 30% bad genes (all those inherited sicknesses) and 30% of good genes and the remaining 40% were from my own (learning all good/bad habits from others.) In reality, I have a mysterious gene pool.  My hubby said: "Luckily, our parents didn't worry about passing imperfect genes to the next generation; otherwise, we won't be here discussing bad genes or good genes.  In order to pass perfect genes to the next generation, we all should build computers instead of having kids". (He thinks computer can be the solutions to everything.)

Yes, one who risks nothing risks everything.  But one who risks everything may lose everything too.

Bonnie

The way I see it, no matter who wins, this debate can go on for a long time and it will not change a thing.  Elise will not be able to turn Bun or Bonnie into being single, and Bun or Bonnie will not be able to turn Elise into being married with kids. 

All we did was trying to make a point based on our own experience and believes. 

There are a lot of prejudices in this world, based on gender, age, race, wealth, education, religion, etc.  But unless we lived the same life, walked the same paths, felt the same joys, endured the same pains, who are we to say that the other person is wrong?

Remember the "Blind Men and the Elephant" story we read decades ago when in school?  They all thought they were right.

No hard feelings.  There will not be a winner.  Let's rest this case and move on, shall we? 

Joe

"If you change the way you look at the world, the world changes."  -- Wayne Dyer